Weapon Limitation in Threads

I was just reading through as I was planning on working on some ranged weapons etc, but ive noticed their is little to no point for a Dex character to ever get a 3rd magic tool due to the fact they can't use it if they want to actually have munitions.

Unlike Strength, Body Manip, Dominance, which have their weapon systems that don't require ammunition, once we expend our ammunition as Stealth or Dex users it limits us heavily this was alleviated on stealth by the ability to have melee and ranged.

But Dexterity Classes which have the ability to get magic tools seem pretty heavily hit because they can't take their 3 magic tools and a ranged weapon as they are limited to three weapons rather than four, this means they are restricted to either two magic tools and one normal to allow them to make basic attacks.

Or too not be able to make basic attacks and have to rely on a secondary class to provide a basic attack which would come at a significant decrease in speed over range.

The main question is do you guys think we should allow more "weapons" to be carried on character, that the 3 per spec we are currently limited too.

I don't think munitions count as "weapons" the way you think they do. Munitions are part of your normal bows, so as long as you have a working bow, you have munitions to go with it. Therefore, Dex munitions don't count towards the thread limit on weapons.

Like Zadi said, your ancient weapons come with munitions built in... as far as not being able to take three magic tools in along with your ancient or magic weapon, that comes down to the same restrictions other classes have... Str can take in three weapons (magic or otherwise), etc. So why should Dex be able to take in more than other classes when they already have the versatility of not just having a magic weapon and basic weapons, but to have magic/basic weapons AND magic tools that they create with custom abilities. If you want to rely solely on having three magic tools, fine, but there would need to be a sacrifice to that... not taking an ancient or magic weapon along with. You will also notice that as long as your magic weapon could use your basic ammo, they can now be used as basic weapons (so a magic bow can use regular arrows by making a magoi "string"), this was in the announcements awhile back.

Zadi thats not what im saying, im saying the having an Ancient Weapon thats critical to having the ability to use your basic specilziation abilities thusly limits the dex user too two magic tools or magic weapons.

Now lets be honest here their is no use changing what items you have into a new thread as that gets into the world of meta gaming, but for the fact dex can't carry their 3 magic tools or magic weapons and a basic ancient for the rest of their spec abilities means they are in theory locked out of either their abilities or lock out of a 3rd magic item.

Dex is also the weakest of the spec's for melee ability because once we expend our ammunition we can't acturly fight with our main specs weapon effectively unlike users of strength.

The problem with the current idea is that having up to limit horribly affects the dex primary builds and hugely benefits anyone taking dex as a secondary or tertiary as they get all the benefits but non of the loses.


EDIT: Also as a response to ari, if i don't bring the ancient weapon with me I can't shoot basic arrows because I technically don't have the ammunition with me as per the rules.

I have a question related to this subject...do magic TOOLS really count as weapons? A magic weapon, of course, would count. But magic tools aren't always weapons. Necklaces, bracelets, books, flying carpets. To my knowledge, these things don't generally count as weapons.

If a Dex user doesn't want to sacrifice bringing an ancient weapon into battle, can't they just make a magic tool that isn't a weapon?

Voda: By basic design, Dex is supposed to be more careful and calculated with their attacks. They have an increased speed and range limit, allowing them to peck off enemies at a distance. Abilities do not reduce the basic ammo numbers, so while they do theoretically have a lower number of basic attacks available to them than other specs, the perks of the spec do a great deal to outweigh this.

Yaku: Per the current guidelines, they are limited to three items of their spec, just like other specs. As magic tools and magic weapons fill the same "slot", it means they have can 3 total between magic tools (of the dex spec), magic weapons, and ancient weapons. This count does not include magic tools purchased outside of the spec.


Voda: You also brought up how other specs aren't penalized for taking Dex as a secondary spec... the same can be said for Dex, there is zero penalty or deterrent to keep you from taking and using another spec, it is why it is there. There are even specs that play hand-in-hand with Dex as a spec (stealth) which make them very natural options in RP to take. So your argument that it has no penalties as a secondary but it does as a primary are kind of confounding to me. If another spec can take advantage of Dex as a secondary, why would a Dex not be able to take advantage of another spec as a secondary? Every spec has perks and downsides to it, so it is and always has been about weighing one against the other.

You may share basic ammunition between your normal Ancient Weapon and your Dex Magic Weapon if they are of the same type, but you do not get extra ammunition for it.

All classes have to choose between what weapon they should take. Dex just has to choose if they want ammo or not as well, which is good because it is a way to keep their range advantage in check.

Well, dont take your basic ammunition then. You have 3 different sources for your abilities but loss on the free basic ammo. There is still a use for it but it comes at the cost of basic ammo.

An Omega Dex would be equal to A tier but with the option of Omega, I believe i better explained to issue in Cbox to worn, but the thing is that its only possible for at most a dex user to take 2 magical items because taking a 3rd would prevent the use of over half or more of their specilization abilities.

By not taking a Ancient Weapon into a thread this in addition prevents them from using the feature of a Magical Weapon to fire the ammunition as they thusly don't have the ammunition.

Their is quite literally no point in having a 4th magical weapon or weapon of any point because it would mean the player would definatly be meta gaming to know what to "bring" when feasibly a character could carry such small objects with ease.

For example a Magical Sword for a strength user could use their sword for their normal techs, were as a magical weapon bow could not be used by a dex user to do the same, thus it means whatever number of tech's they have don't work only those associated to the weapon am i correct.

Well, a magic bow CAN be used for your traditional abilities. It just depends on how you design the bow.

If it makes a magoi string and fires magoi arrows then yes, it will limit your arsenal. However, if it has a normal string and fires normal arrows BUT can also produce magical spells, then you should still be able to use your traditional abilities with that magical bow.

Yakuroro wrote:Well, a magic bow CAN be used for your traditional abilities. It just depends on how you design the bow.

If it makes a magoi string and fires magoi arrows then yes, it will limit your arsenal. However, if it has a normal string and fires normal arrows BUT can also produce magical spells, then you should still be able to use your traditional abilities with that magical bow.

I believe we have been told it doesn't have a string though ? but then you still wouldn't have your ancient weapon ammunition.

Voda, your argument about meta gaming was a concern i brought up when we expanded the number of weapons ANYONE could have while limiting the number brought into a thread. However, all specs have that same capability. An Int person may have more than one Advanced staff (giving them limited access to other magic types) but they may only take ONE into a thread with them. A strength user may have more than 3 weapons, but must choose the three they wish to take. Again, it all comes down to choice and sacrifice. Yes, meta-gaming might happen. But in the threads where meta-gaming might be a huge issue (events, dungeons, etc), the players don't know what will be thrown at them and must decide at the beginning what to take and hope for the best. In any type of job or profession thread, they already know exactly what they will encounter and how they will deal with it. Most people also don't RP themselves as taking damage in these threads because they know what the enemies will do, as they control them. Should we also remove that possibility by having all enemies, site-wide, staff controlled?

Overall, Dex does not have any more limitations than any other spec and must make the same choices other specs must make. If you dislike the limitation on amount of ammo, then pick up a secondary spec where you have a weapon with unlimited basic attacks, similar to how other specs take on Dex as a secondary to take advantage of its speed and range perks.

You consider because its even all over that its equal and balanced and thats the issue, consider the fact that Strength has its Magical Weapons considered as Normal Weapons, whereas Dex does not.

Intelligence Omega gets access to 3 magic types base doesn't it, in addition to its 4th from an Advanced Staff.

Its not that they have unlimited attacks that was never the point, it was the fact that their is never any point in having a 3rd magic tool/weapon as a dex character as if they wished to take a Magical Weapon and use basic ammunition say they took a magical bow, it would require them to bring an Ancient Bow in that thread to provide the weapon with the basic ammunition.

This means a Dex user to bring a Dex Magic Weapon needs two weapons to fill one role that strength users can with a single weapon, Strength users can access normal sword techniques with the magical sword and their magic techniques.

Whereas a Dex Magic Weapon User can't use their normal Bow techniques unless they are using their Ancient Weapon, in that case they can't use their Magic Weapon Abilities because its from the Magic Tool.

Thus Dexterity recieves the hardest debuffs from the 3 item rule due to the fact that once they pass A tier they have to sacrifice unlike the other Specilizations which benefit from all 4 possibilities.

Strength gets Magic Weapons with Standard Tech ability and Magoi Manipulation with is around 4 to 5 weapon types in theory.

Ok, I see what the problem is now. Sorry about the useless post earlier...

Anyway, why not bring a Magic-imbued bow into a thread to fill two roles? With or without a string, a bow is a bow and with magic, I assume, you can use basic ammo plus your other dex abilities. Why bring a basic bow at all? That may be the problem more than the 3 weapon limit, from what I see. There is not point to a basic bow once you have a matching-tier magic bow.

I might still not be hitting the problem correctly, so...yeah. Just remember that Dexterity benefits from faster speeds and longer range making it pretty great both close and long range, if you know what you're doing. The weapon limit may SEEM to hit harder, but from my perspective, the 3 weapon limit is similar to Str's 3 weapon limit. Granted, Dex is more versatile.

Strength may be able to have more than one magic weapon, but it can only take one into a thread with them... just like dex can have 3 magic tools but if they want to take a bow with them, then they have to choose 2 of the 3 magic tools, so I am failing to see how Dex has to sacrifice MORE than other specs. Strength can take three swords in and, technically, Dex can take 3 magical weapons in. So, technically, Dex has access to MORE magical items than any other spec, to be able to bring into a thread with them.

As Zadi stated, if you have arrows from an ancient weapon and a magic bow, then when you walk out the door, you can grab the arrows and the magic bow without taking the ancient weapon with you.

In any case, why should Dex have to sacrifice LESS than other specs?

Can we get confirmation that the Dex Magic Weapons acturly act as how zadi is assuming because from what I read on they current listing for Magic Weapons - Magic Weapons they would not work as such.

But Ari im following what the rules state you can only have the ammunition for the primary ancient weapon if you havent got it with you, you don't have a primary ancient weapon thus no ammunition.

(See previous post, Voda, I think you posted as I did)

I mean the rules state that the primary ancient weapon is the ammunition you get, if you havent got a primary ancient aka no ancient weapon in the three you take you don't have the ammunition.

If the Admin says something is true, then it must be (in terms of rules/systems). All that would need to be done is some editing.

After speaking to other staff, it was brought to my attention that the original intention was not to include magic TOOLS in the count, only magic weapons... and after conferring with other members of staff, they agree with that ruling soooo

Ancient Weapons and Magic weapons are limited to 3, no limit on the magic tools (aside from the rule of having no more than 3 Dex-created Magic tools/weapons total in your inventory)

Ok thank you for the heads up.