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Low level magic

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1Low level magic Empty Low level magic 30/06/14, 03:40 am

Vardreth

Vardreth
Ω-Tier
Ω-Tier

*Disclaimer* Hey guys, I haven't actually played this system yet and it probably works alright. I just saw some weird stuff though, and wanted to make this comment.


For now, lets take a look at 2 stats provided when making a spell:

Scale
The scale is basically the size of the ability itself. Typically this only pertains to spells and other abilities which are based around "creating" attacks. Eg. Fireballs, lightning bolts, etc. If you think an ability needs a scale just put one in. When a mod is grading it you can discuss the topic more. Scale may be affected by some of the other attributes.

D-Tier: 5 meters in scale
C-Tier: 10 meters in scale
B-Tier: 15 meters in scale
A-Tier: 25 meters in scale
Ω-Tier: 50 meters in scale

Range
This determines how far an ability travels, or how much room it may take up. All abilities require this, but for Strength-Based techniques this can also double as a "Scale" measurement.

D-Tier: 10 meters
C-Tier: 20 meters
B-Tier: 30 meters
A-Tier: 40 meters
Ω-Tier: 50 meters


Now, I didn't notice this before, but here we have 2 issues.  Range is, for some reason, saying it counts as scale as well. Which is weird, but perhaps just an error in writing.

Now, the main concern I have is with the scale of the spells. The size and encompassing nature of a D level spell out-scales it's effectiveness. At this point, it is a 5 meter diameter spell. I'm from the U.S., so lets translate this over into feet for those of us who are also from the U.S.; a D level spell has a diameter of 15 feet. This would be like stacking 2 cars on top of each other right next to another stack of 2 cars.

Which is pretty big, if you consider a 15 feet diameter sphere contains 1767.15 cubic feet.

Now, there are 4 different things I have imagined can be done to change the size to make it look more believable. There is an easy way, a medium difficult way, a hard way and a super easy way. The easy way is to cut the current scale down by 1/5 of what it currently is and make sure to put the cubic meters for volume in there, as well as the surface area.

Cubic Meters = m^3

These changes would look like this:
D-Tier: 1 meter diameter, .52m^3 volume and 3.14m surface area.
C-Tier: 2 meter diameter, 33.51m^3 volume and 50.27m surface area.
B-Tier: 3 meter diameter, 113.1m^3 volume and 113.1m surface area.
A-Tier: 5 meter diameter, 523.6m^3 volume and 314.16m surface area.
Omega-Tier: 10 meter diameter, 4188.79m^3 volume and 1256.64m surface area.  (Tentative. Omega tier damage is described in an epic manner. Omega tier is said to be able to destroy armies. I'm leery of even putting a limit on scale here.)


The medium way to scale this correctly would be to apply similar rules as the 'Amount' effect in abilities as follows:

"The "Amount" of an ability may produce more possible hits, but it also splits up the damage. Eg. A C-Tier Ability may produce 10 fireballs. C-Tier damage will be applied but ONLY if all 10 hit. If 5 or less make contact D-Tier damage will be applied."

The way this would be enacted would be to take the % of the spell that hits the character to be the effective part of the spell. As it stands, if the Water Manipulation Technique is used it can create a 20 ft (6m) tall tidal wave, 30 ft (9m) wide and 6~ ft (2m) deep. These dimensions aren't the limit of D level, but it's close. However, if the magic is spread out like this, it's spreading it's force. An average person is around 5'10-6'4, which changed to 177cm (1.5m) or 193cm (almost 2m) tall, and most can be considered to be 1 foot, or 30 cm (.3m) in width and about 60 cm to 1m in length. This makes  .6m^3 volume's worth of space, or 5.8m surface area, which is actually close to the contact area as well. Now, out of this 108m^3, only 6.3m^3 actually put force on the opponent. This is 5.8% of the spell actually hitting the person, and this is all it needs to apply the effect as it stands by rules alone. This method would take this into account and only apply the percentage of the technique that is actually hitting the player.


The difficult way would be to revamp the magic system with a 'meter shop' for the abilities. You have a certain number of meters, or cubic meters, to spend on each tier of ability. With caps placed on the speed as-is, (For a D tier ability, you can only have a maximum of 10 m/s spent into that stat of the ability) you may spend a number of points as follows:
D Tier: 30
C Tier: 50
B Tier: 80
A Tier: 110
Omega Tier: 160

Everything is a 1 for 1 cost except for scale, which is 3 for 1. This can do things like make the spell larger, but move slower to it's target, or make the spell a longer range.

This one is quite possibly the least feasible, though.


The easiest way is to run your spells with logic in mind and limit your ability in order to role-play the spell correctly. I honestly just like math, and thought combat has the opportunity to be mathematically improved.

2Low level magic Empty Re: Low level magic 30/06/14, 02:12 pm

Duquin

Duquin
A-Tier
A-Tier

The range and scale wordings are just a bit misleading. The "how much room it may take up" doesn't quite mean how big it is. But rather how much room it can move within. So you might have a 10m scale spell with a range of 20m meaning the spell takes up a 20m space even if the spell itself isn't that big.

As for the massive size of D-tier spells, after doing some research on canon it honestly doesn't seem too far fetched from canon that even a D-tier mage can produce such large quantities of their magic type. In addition, the way the system is built anyone could create a supplementary dodge allowing them to cover the distance of an enemy spell size(assuming equal tier) in a single second. So while they may be huge the game-mechanics keep it from being as overpowering as it sounds.

I don't think the issue doesn't exist, but at the same time, I don't feel like any of the suggestions you've made are really simple enough. They either require too much math or too much micro management of ones abilities. I've got ideas on how to revamp abilities that are somewhat similar to how your "shop" suggestion worked which basically changes the approach from "max everything out" to "Here is the max you can have, now distribute between your abilities attributes" but it's difficult to find a good balance while also keeping things simple so that idea is hardly ready for prototyping v.v

3Low level magic Empty Re: Low level magic 30/06/14, 09:07 pm

Vardreth

Vardreth
Ω-Tier
Ω-Tier

Yea, as I began writing in possible ideas for scaling down I realized that it's likely best to leave it as is.

Just wanted to throw down that info though.

4Low level magic Empty Re: Low level magic 30/06/14, 09:11 pm

Duquin

Duquin
A-Tier
A-Tier

Your feed back was definitely appreciated. It helped in a way as now I feel less silly about deciding on an ability update based around distributing between fields rather than just maxing every aspect of a spell.

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