Swarm Beasts [The Discussion]

I wasn't planning on doing this, due to the fact that it'll only matter to those who had dominance and wanted to try the beast out. It's not going to matter to those who won't use the beast class type, or even use beasts in general.

I recently tried my hand at making the creature for the hell of it,  and with the systems in place, I noticed they this class was built to fail.

For example, the usual 16 trait points for an A tier brute or parasite, the hive would only receive 8. It's already built in that beast rank is equivalent to their damage rank, so they don't need strength tiers to do damage. It was also said that their size  "decides how fast they are" on whether they need speed tiers or not? That's just speculation at this point, because deciding what's naturally fast in size to disregard the staples is questionable.  

A calculation of the WIP due to administration changes Longzufu, his size as a dragon resulted in me investing in a speed trait for him to even have.  Now, since some hives are naturally small in individual size and not the calculated bunches of mass, does that negate speed gaining portion through traits and should it base it on the speed and strength of the hive on its rank alone?

It should,  by holding these standards, we give the hive player more wiggle room to use their trait points on things that they want, and not wasting it on standards.

The reasoning behind the points being low is that "there are many of them".   Without attacks directed to the core,  which could be a beehive, the person themselves, a queen/king, should this negate overall hive damage unless directly targeting the most important target of the hive?

It should,  because it adds longevity to a class that loses out on powerful traits, due to its mass gaining effects.  Now don't get me wrong, you can go a long way with a D tier trait for a beast, even if it's just the ability to register hydrogen based techniques up to their rank, capping at a tier.

But people shy away from the class, and I'd like to believe that all beast classes are good.  If they can't get their full trait points, maybe something can change to make them more playable and manageable.


-Speed and strength for free based upon their rank capping at A tier.
- Damage negation unless core is targeted (more would be produced and who gives a damn about the fodder)
-Mass production per post  that increase hive size (with limit) and also treated as a range modifier for techniques.
- A stronger End game

How can we equalize the hive? Once upon a time, El drago (my old dragon) had lightning magic as a traitress ability.  Everything else I had to pay for, but I got a magic type for free.  Let's give that to the hives, a primary magic type on top of their free omega tier trait once they hit legend.

If you can get a magic type for free that's registered as "Stamina usage" for the Hives,  it's going to be good.  That's a good deal that could make some beast users happy.  Yes, they might have to wait, they might not main it from start to finish.

This is my pitch with the intent of being mindful of other beast users that might want to try new things. I appreciate any and all feedback, especially to those who main beasts like me for a long time and might have a good eye of what they would want to see.

I completely disagree, the best way to aid this would be to provide a buff in trait points to swarms - personally I suggest 3/4.

Secondly, Parasite's require some form of restriction or at least serious looking into - Parasite's are the beast type which is immune to the most types of damage due to being inside a host. Its traits are the only traits that can directly affect its master unlike any other beasts.

Swarms are practically immune to direct attacks and are primarily only vulnerable to AoE type of attacks. In addition Burrowing type swarms are almost certainly the strongest of all the types of swarms possible. This is due to burrowing being significantly more powerful than any other movement type for swarms.

Single Beasts - Are technically the weakest of all beasts - possibilities you can do with legend beasts can make them extremely viable but that is similar for all the beast types. As they are extremely vulnerable to all forms of attacks.


What I personally suggest is that we look away from traits being treated the same as player traits but rather treat them as distinct racial traits of each beast. For example a beast's speed may be more significant than that of other beings.

A massive hulking beast may well be significantly slower etc but its damage output/damage absorption etc would be significant.

@Vodarara | As our dear, resident creation mod here, let me tell you that Beast Traits already are capable of way more than traits we might make for our characters.

Swarm-type beasts are already extremely deadly. Lets take the example of an A-tier swarm beast designed to be a hive of some sort like Lagi suggested.

There are just enough trait points to get the basic idea described. 4 points to give the swarm a trait that brings their basic attack damage up to A-tier since the systems state swarm beasts have D-tier attacks normally. 4 more points to give the swarm a queen that can reproduce to reinforce the hive's numbers.

Bees are the first thing that come to mind describing all that so lets paint a picture. The systems state that even a D-tier swarm would have dozens numbering close to 100, so this A-tier bee hive swarm would likely be approved with something like 1,000 bees or more. How many players reading this can confidently say they could survive 1,000 bees that deal A-tier damage without being harmed? Even if you have an AoE attack to deal with them, the player controlling the bees doesn't need to make them attack all at once. How much magoi and stamina will you waste contantly dealing with the endless stream of deadly bees AND deal with your opponent at the same time? Surely at A-tier they have a secondary class by now. Or if they are Omega-tier they might even have a second A-tier beast in the thread.

What if instead of reproduction, the second trait was spent on making the bees have A-tier hardness exoskeletons? Or gave them access to abilities using a unique type of honey with sticky and flammable properties? All three of those potential second A-rank traits give the bees a terrifying advantage and use in battle. Do they really need double the trait points? Because if they had double the trait points, one could have all four of the above mentioned traits combined. A-tier damage and armor with sticky honey explosive abilities and endless numbers as long as the reproducing queen doesn't die.

Swarm beasts had their trait points cut in half because without that, higher tiered swarm beasts become more powerful than even some djinn equips.