Combat VS. Non-Combat Abilities

So i noticed a problem when i tried to make a Clairvoyance ability to allow for sight over great distances. As it stands, Clairvoyance spells, and other non-combat spells are being held to the same standards as spells that can deal damage. Even social spells, which have the specific requirement that they can never be used in combat, are held to the same standard. I believe this needs to be fixed. For instance, the ability to see what the Rukh are seeing over a great distance shouldn't be too hard. All you would need is some kind of seeing tool, and a medium connecting you to that place, but because of the range restrictions, this would only work over 50 meters at maximum strength. This is a very small distance considering what it should be capable of. In canon for instance, a similar spell allowed for real time speech between the countries of Reim and Magnostadt, a huge distance, and required a minimum amount of Magoi.

In my opinion, i think that there should be different standards for combat and non-combat spells. The ability to deal damage is no small thing, and i think what we have now works for these spells. I think we need different standards for spells that cannot, or don't deal damage.

I can kind of see what you mean as long as it doesn't deal damage i guess you could use it more as a spy.

Though it would say be limited in the respects that you have to think of the people your hunting for may not be easy to spot as per say.

In canon for instance, a similar spell allowed for real time speech between the countries of Reim and Magnostadt, a huge distance, and required a minimum amount of Magoi.

Regarding this, it was actually done using a magical tool called the Eye of Rukh. As magical tools have different standards than abilities, this does not really apply.

Altair Loros wrote:So i noticed a problem when i tried to make a Clairvoyance ability to allow for sight over great distances.  As it stands, Clairvoyance spells, and other non-combat spells are being held to the same standards as spells that can deal damage.  Even social spells, which have the specific requirement that they can never be used in combat, are held to the same standard.  I believe this needs to be fixed.  For instance, the ability to see what the Rukh are seeing over a great distance shouldn't be too hard.  All you would need is some kind of seeing tool, and a medium connecting you to that place, but because of the range restrictions, this would only work over 50 meters at maximum strength.  This is a very small distance considering what it should be capable of.  In canon for instance, a similar spell allowed for real time speech between the countries of Reim and Magnostadt, a huge distance, and required a minimum amount of Magoi.

In my opinion, i think that there should be different standards for combat and non-combat spells.  The ability to deal damage is no small thing, and i think what we have now works for these spells.  I think we need different standards for spells that cannot, or don't deal damage.

There already are different standards for certain abilities that don't fall into combat and those standards are taken on a case by case basis. One example is my Ice Tome which can last for 1 month IC. If you feel like your ability is deserving of some kind of standard outside what is the norm then post it up and negotiate with staff. You might not get the results you desire, but it's worth a try.

But as for long range clairvoyance magic, I fear you are greatly downplaying its complexity and difficulty. The canon examples we have involve the worlds best magicians and, as Ari pointed out, magical tools that were required to get the job done. Yamuraiha was considered a genius far beyond her years and Magnostadt has some of the best magician's alive. Reim was also a huge empire and it wouldn't make sense for their magicians to be any less than superb.

The last example I'll use is Judar, a Magi, whom performed long range clairvoyance magic without the help of a tool. To my knowledge he is the only character we've seen thus far who can perform such magic without a magic tool.

Spoiler Warning:

We know that it is not a simple task easily performed by anything but the most advanced magic users in the world without a magic tool's help. With one's help it might be a more simple task, but I doubt such a tool's creation would be as easy and low cost as operating it is.

That being said, I wouldn't think it would be reasonable for a player to make their own long range clairvoyance magic exceeding the limitations of normal abilities. Personally, I think that a magic tool for that should be required.

Yakuroro wrote:Yamuraiha was considered a genius far beyond her years and Magnostadt has some of the best magician's alive.

I'd just like to add to this. Per the Magi Wiki (which is fan made):

This is a type of Clairvoyance Magic that makes the Rukh show things that cannot be seen, faraway places, and events of the past. It uses the blood of the people involved to show their Rukh. When this magic is used water is shaped into the people involved and acts out what ever situation that is being discussed.

So for a long range Clairvoyance Magic, I would imagine that the limitations would have to be similar. I also worry about balance issues in regards to Clairvoyance.

For example, say a Clair user does jobs with most of the PCs that involve a fair level of danger. These PCs all get injured at some point in the jobs and the Clair user collects the blood. Now, they would have the option to at any time spy on each of the PCs they collected blood from and ruin any of their plans. I realize that not everyone would use Clair like this and the details they learn might not be game breaking, but it has the possibility.

This power is not really in the anime and i don't think it is in the manga either[ though i have not rewad all manga. Note only way i see this working if you could somehow, have a pet of sorts connected with you magoi. This Pet could be in 1 area at a time and you have to pay the travel cost for moving him from one to another, Then this pet could possibly enter open Topics [Similar and you could see things via that pet. Taking someone blood[oh now i can see everything they see, makes no logical sense in the world of magi. You would have to plant something on them, not take something.

[My Veiw]

Whether or not someone's blood would allow you to always watch them in real time is unknown. But using someone's blood to view their past is canon.

http://www.mangapanda.com/magi/159/10

I agree that watching someone in real-time should require some kind of medium, but I wouldn't say only a beast could work. You could make a life magic familiar that you see through or something. But I still believe magic tools are the best alternative.

EDIT: I've just been reminded of a spell used during the Zagan arc where a spell had been used to track people in real time. Although, this spell didn't show the caster the targets location, what they were saying, or who was with them aside from fellow spell targets. So even if you do go around collecting everyone's blood, the most you could do with that is know if they are alive or dead. You couldn't spy on them with impunity. I hope this alleviates some of Azix's worries.

That was the exact spell I was referring to in my post actually.

The general consensus for clairvoyance specifically is to restrict the strength of their utility to not be a world-encompassing technique.

The overall consensus on non-combat abilities seems to be a desire for things to be judged without always having to follow the strict guidelines of combat abilities.

Staff ruling:

We will discuss Social Abilities having more lee-way on a case-by-case basis, which can be brought up in the individual ability approval section process. Please make sure to post it in the approval process, and not have it done over the CBOX or elsewhere for transparency and visibility purposes.