Stats

Below is a system in the works but done enough where I wish to share with you the members to see how you react to it and if this is a direction we want to go in.

Too many times are we fighting and wondering, who's spell went first, would this reach my target in time? How can I swing? Can I out run this attack? Can I see them moving, can I see this attack?

These issues come from the way we currently have is that fluff is king. If your fluff is better then you win, and yes the tier if the ability.

With this system though it allows you and anyone who looks at your fights who is Faster, Stronger, Sees further and better, and who can take more hits.

Combat will run smoother, there isn't any math involved, all numbers are fixed. Below you will see the difference in tiers.

Please keep in mind this is NOT the final product and IS NOT going into effect with out players wanting it. It has gained enough interested through out staff to reach this point.

We are open to hearing you thoughts and feedback but no arguing or rude comments will be accepted in the comments. State your opinions and debate it welcomed but keep it civil.



How Many stat points total? 30 max
How many per rank up? 3
How many upon character creation? 5
Tying in traits to stats? Traits can give bonuses and defined applications of the stat they are for.
What does each stat represent?
Damage:
Subtypes:
Physical: Brute force
Magical: Magical power

Attack speed: How fast you can punch/cast effectively
Movement speed: How Fast you move
Durability: How much Damage you can take
Sensory: How well can you see

0-4 Point Difference – Somewhat Noticeable, at this difference of stat points the two players are nearly equivalent in stats. The player with the higher stat may have a slight upper hand in the long run.

5-9 Point Difference – Noticeable, At this difference is it more obvious to see the difference in power, while it is not extremely overwhelming for the player with the lower stats, the player with higher stats will generally overpower the lower.

10-14 Point Difference – Very Noticeable, At this difference it is obvious to see who is the stronger player from the very beginning. The player with the lower stat may not be able to keep up at all with the higher stat player.

15+ Point Difference – Extremely Noticeable, At this difference between the player with lower stats stands little chance against the higher stat player. The higher stat player may be an entirely different rank or higher, and way overpowered in comparison to the lower player.

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Less than 5 Stat Points
Regular
Below Average Human level
Physically impaired humans. Small animals.Magicians.

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5 Stat Points: Average Human level
Normal human characters.

Athlete level
Athletes, most fighting characters from action movies.

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10 Stats:Superhuman
Street-level
Peak Humans to Low Superhuman. Few physically very strong Olympic-level athletes and martial artists in real life. Most protagonists and final villains from action/martial arts movies. Large animals.

Wall level
Characters/Weapons who can destroy a wall or those who can easily harm characters with wall-level durability. Very large animals.

Room/Small Building level
Characters/Weapons who can destroy a room or a small building, or those who can easily harm characters with room level durability. Extremely large animals.

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15 Stat Points:Urban
Building level
Characters/Weapons who can destroy a building, or those who can easily harm characters with building level durability.

City Block level
Characters/Weapons who can destroy a city-block or those who can easily harm characters with city-block level durability.

Multi-City Block level
Characters/Weapons can destroy multiple city blocks or easily harm characters with multi-city-block level durability.

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20 Stat Points: Nuclear
Town level
Characters who can destroy a town, or those who can easily harm characters with town-level durability.

City level
Characters/Weapons who can destroy a city or those who can easily harm characters with city-level durability.

Mountain level
Characters/Weapons who can destroy a large mountain, or those who can easily harm characters with mountain level durability.

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25 Stat Points:Tectonic
6-C: Island level
Characters/Weapons can destroy a large island or easily harm characters with island-level durability.

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Under 5 Stats Points:Below Average Human (0-5 m/s)
5 Stats Points:Normal Human (5-8 m/s)
10 Stats Points:Athletic Human (8-10 m/s)
15 Stats Points:Peak Human (10-13 m/s)
20 Stats Points:Superhuman (13-35 m/s)
25 Stats Points:Subsonic (Faster than the Eye) (35-172 m/s)

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Under 5 Stat Points: Below Average Human 5 m/s
5 Stat Points:Nomral Human 10 m/s
10 Stat Points:Athletic 30 m/s
15 Stat Points:Peak Human 60 m/s
20 Stat Points:Super Human 120 m/s
25 Stat Points:Subsonic 150 m/s

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D = 100 HP (-20 HP Death)
C = 120 HP (-24 HP Death)
B = 160 HP (-32 HP Death)
A = 220 HP (-44 HP Death)
O = 300 HP (-60 HP Death

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5 Stat Points: Can see clearly up to 30 meters so long as nothing is blocking the user's view.
10 Stat Points: Can see clearly up to 50 meters so long as nothing is blocking the user's view.
15 Stat Points: Can see clearly up to 70 meters so long as nothing is blocking the user's view.
20 Stat Points: Can see clearly up to 90 meters so long as nothing is blocking the user's view.
25 Stat Points: Can see clearly up to 150 meters so long as nothing is blocking the user's view.


Each Stat block and also CLEARLY see the speeds of equal stat points for Movement Speed and Attack Speed, meaning those who have 5 stats in sensory can clearly see the movements of those with 5 stats in Movement Speed and the attacks made by those with 5 stats in Attack Speed so on and

I think this radically changes combat, and this is far more convoluted than before. I think removing Scaling should be more of a priority. I do not think we have had as many issues as you say we have. I think fluff has only become "King" because staff had made it so. You just need to remove that. It is entirely caused by staff and you that it's become that way, to be quite honest. I do not think we should have health bars. I think it takes away from a lot of the inner workings of combat that we had and makes it too much like a game. I believe as it is now it is good.

Anytime speed fluff has mattered was when staff had made it matter, particularly Merrze to be frank. If we look at Ani's trait, we see that. If we look at yours for Zoran, we see that. It has caused issues as we did not have tiers above Fanalis A-Tier or A-Tier flight. I think if we are better off without this fluff that staff has imposed upon the tiers. It is causing unnecessary power creep. I think we will do a lot better with just Scaling removed.

Fluff has been apart of the problem before I even arrived. In every event there is an issue about what hit, who was able to react in time, who's ability went off first. This doesn't make it complicated, it makes it way simpler. Everything is clearer. Our current system already has game like mechanics and to be honest the lack of how much damage one can take is actually and issue. The only damage threshold on site is for NPC sheets. Players are more on a "You can die from anything if it hits you right"

I can testify that every event there is combat issues. If you remove fluff then everything is too plain and everyone does the same thing.

Fluff removed is the systems without the unneeded power creep of it. I have rarely seen the issues you speak of. It is more so people misunderstanding the systems. I have seen many events come and go as well, but the issues usually almost always lie with people not grasping how things work properly, primarily reaction speed, travel speed, and magic or abilities clashing. Clarify those three and we will be fine. There is no need for an entire stat system imo.

There is no travel speeds other than the ones you mentioned of Fanalis and flight, and spells also have no flight speed apposed from the fluff. This would give flat values to both.

Personally, I'll have to disagree on the usage of stats on the site. This would be entering uncharted territory in regards to how to properly function with once again flipping concepts and abilities on the heads of the players to match a global update, when with the delays and how easy going staff and players are, the site became a lot more casual than it initially was. I do believe that keeping things simple is better.

I also believe the point system we have for creatures a whole and legend beasts is a good rule of thumb in regards to how we could manage things. However, between the trait points and the stat points, the community might reject this idea outright. How would hp coincide with healing factors? As a vampire lord I had a normal proc, but now as a Dracul I can grab any scrub and drain them of blood to heal. If no matter what, "even well placed A rank strikes to the head for clean kills" isn't enough if it doesn't bring your stat points to 0, wouldn't this make magic with heals the most powerful if everyone now shares a win condition with each other?

The healing I have broken down same with buffs and such, that a bit more detail than I'm going to make public, as I won't be putting effort into building something further if the basics of it are rejected.


As far as the concern for flipping everyone on their head this wouldn't be any bigger of a deal than it was with range swaps. In fact, You'd keep the description of most if not all spells, and their tiers would stay. Everything else wouldn't matter, the damage would be a given by your stats, the speed it travels, and how fast you shot, swung, cast also told by stats. It wouldn't be much work at all, just a look over to ensure the spell fits the type and class.

As I said before, please fix the issue of the fluff power creep, but don't try and justify the power creep that Merrze caused. Keep in mind, you and Ani benefit from the increased speed that is not meant to exist within the systems. We had the A-Tier fanalis fluff, and that was an exception, not a rule. It was not meant to work as more than the tier before it, outside of non combat fluff. I also apologize in advance if I may come off rude at all, since I am certainly not trying to.

We have travel speed. That is a speed governed by traits and abilities. It means you have a set speed when moving from point a to point b. Historically, this has been confused with reaction speed and ability speed on multiple occasions. Even Lagi himself still mistakes this, as did I in the past. This must be clarified to only be only when moving from point a to point b, unrelated to reaction or ability speed. Humans are detailed to move at a certain travel speed. Fanalis are detailed to move at a certain travel speed as well. Flight speed if I recall is equal to Fanalis speed to where for example A-Tier Flight and A-Tier Fanalis speed move the same. If I am wrong about the prior sentence, feel free to correct me but this is how I have understood this.

Now onto ability speed. It is purely dictated by fluff, but there comes the issue of something being higher tier, so some wonder if the "higher tier beats out lower tier" applies. Clarify this, that is all you need to do, not introduce a stat system. I am sorry for the work put into the system, but the fact of the matter is that it does not need a stat system to be fixed. It solely needs to be clarified. Another suggestion to this could just be to introduce reaction speeds that dictate ability speed and any combat action speed, though this would change too much, just not as much as the stat system. If not that, then speed can be flat out dictated by tier solely. So we have those options, or just keep the fluff but clarify. There are abilities and tools which would become obsolete and need major reworking if your stat system came into play.

As for magic and abilities clashing, to be quite honest, we will likely have this issue no matter what. It is persistent on every site, but what we can do to have less of these issues is to just clarify what happens when x magic interacts with x magic. We do not have to do it for every magic, but the main ones; I think that is doable. From what I have seen, magic is where the main issue lies and in the clashing of magic. What I mentioned prior on travel and ability speed will be great ways to solve a bulk of the ability clashing issues. However, as long as combat and the vast freedom of creativity we have on the site exists, there will be disagreements and arguments here and there. We cannot do much but try to minimize this the most we can for they occur rarely.

Lastly, please, I hope we can remove the fluff power scaling. It should not go past the strength and speed boundaries we have set. If it must, let it be for non combat fluff, like the A-Tier Fanalis strength was. Otherwise, I do not believe we should be fluff power scaling anymore. However, I do not think Merrze is ever keen on backtracking on things she has made and given out, especially when they are from Shards or Djinn. It is life though and Lagi has had it done to him plenty times, as some others too. I think both me and Lagi have a well understanding of how to use the systems to become deadly, and the ways of attaining "God" power so to speak.

Only three people on the site have that, and they are the ones here that have spoken thus far in this thread. Only two of which were able to create that power themselves from the systems, the other having been able to achieve it through fluff power scaling made by Merrze. I am not saying anything bad of it, but just that it's not how fluff power scaling in regards to speed and strength have ever been used. As for abilities themselves, that is a different story. I am referring more so to Traits and Passives on the fluff power scaling we should not have, nor were meant to have. Only reason that these "God" powers have not been able to be done away with is cause that would mean changing or removing so much that you would change entire kits of people who have worked on them for years. Also because rarely anyone realizes these powers' existences. It is with it that any of us would even stand a chance against any of each other to be frank, us three. These powers exceed Djinn, when able to be applied and able to be made. That is why Lagi was stronger than a KC before his Djinn and why Trently has been able to contend with KCs (excluding Julius) without his Djinn.

Firstly, stats are a DnD/TTRPG feature. It's a feature that this site doesn't really need, nor is it one that would fit well with the current systems without a complete system overhaul. Without a complete look at how this would overhaul the systems or mesh into our systems, I don't see how you can expect anyone to be on board. Plus the layout is convoluted and confusing. It's messy.

Speed only exists with moving to point A to point B. Ability speeds shouldn't exist, even as fluff. That's part of the issue we have where we have allowed abilities to go through with fluff speed. Clashing isn't an issue if you think logically.

Range swaps isnt even comparable to this level of change you're wanting to implement.

If the damage you're capable of dealing is limited through the stats you put in it, even through abilities, then why bother with tiers of abilities? Extreme Magics?

" but don't try and justify the power creep that Merrze caused." I didn't justify anything done by Merrze or anyone. I'm not going to comment about my Djinn other than it actually Nerfs me when I use it. Julius is 100x deadlier without using it than using it. If you want more details feel free to DM me. This is about stats and stats alone. But please don't act like I'm only what I am from a DMV I don't even use often.

As for Neo, "Clashing isn't an issue if you think logically." No, actually because Magic is illogical, it science meets fantasy, this is a fantasy world with fantasy elements. We can apply logic to certain aspects of the combat systems with the basic understanding of chemistry and physics and all the other branches of Science which IMO is more work than the math you all had to deal with before. Every time there is an issue we all googling how X, Y, X, and the 3rd works. I really don't want to have to google "How does radiation affect Trees?" Because Hazard magic was used to blast some wood magic. Or how strength magic would affect a water barrier and research how water can flow with the force waves and absorb a point of the pressure but technically it still travels through.

"Range swaps isnt even comparable to this level of change you're wanting to implement."
It is, I listed how simple it is when replying to Lagi. Abilities descriptions and Tiers stay, everything else goes away.

"If the damage you're capable of dealing is limited through the stats you put in it, even through abilities, then why bother with tiers of abilities? Extreme Magics?"

Tiers, like ranks and tiers for class, so the level where you are in your craft. The higher tier allows for what they do currently, which is become more complex as to what they can do and become. As for EM Magics, they would be again how they are now. EM would not be affected as it's the power of the Djinn not the power of the user. The easiest way to really answer your question would be to give EM a stat pool, and allow the user to fill in the stats for their EM. Pretty cut and dry.

Seems interesting, I'm not against it. However, doesn't seem like the community isn't really feeling it. If half of the community is interested, I'll put some two cents in because I love stats in general. Feels like it just might be complicated for some people. Thank you for putting in this hard work, Julius. It isn't easy to just create something without people appreciating the work.