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Strength Systems, and Changes to Race Systems

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Julius Virgil

Julius Virgil
C-Tier
C-Tier

I started this little suggestion to see if I could somehow get a fixed amount on tiers of strength and speed. However, as I researched more and more, I began to see small problems and holes with the system. Hopefully these ideas can help in a way and make more sense of things.

So as I mentioned, tiers of strength and speed are a little awkward. People usually measure them in "Fanalis," or what tier of Fanalis the amount of strength would equal to. One Fanalis tier was an extra tier of damage that they could put behind their fists, or potentially their weapons. This was a little awkward as an A-tier Fanalis can't do Omega-tier strength at A-tier, and therefore fluff text was put in to make it seem like they were getting buffed once more, however doing to same amount of damage.

Humans meanwhile did D-tier damage naturally with their fists, which is also a little weird, because that's the same amount of damage they can do with D-tier weapons. As we all know, fists do not equal swords in science, regardless of how weak or strong someone is. It makes little sense to keep it this way.

I guess system-creators did the tier up thing to fix the fact that it was natural for a Fanalis to be stronger than a human. That makes sense, because that's what's canon. However, there could be a better way to pull off this system, that consists of nerfs to both races, however a potential for them to equal out and a little bit more towards traits.

The imuchakk is unchanged, yet recieves an indirect buff. I see the Imuchakk as a race who's incredibly strong early on, but can be weaker as the posts rack up. A Fanalis literally gets to be stronger than an Imuchakk at C-tier. Considering how easy C-tier is to achieve, it can make Imuchakk a less desirable pick. Also, how often do you see people swimming in threads?

Original Fanalis and Human Charts:

Potential New Charts:

Strength and Speed System Charts:

So if you didn't notice what I changed or why I changed them, let's go through them.

1:

2:

3:

4:

5:

6:

[spoiler="7"] New "Strength and Speed Systems" page outline - In order to solidify what all these tiers mean.


Although you may argue that Humans can easily be the same kinda person as a Fanalis at all the tiers, remember.. The restriction on those human and mage strength traits is that they'd need to be B-tier with a second class in order to get them. (I kinda cheated...) This could also open the doors for Imuchakk to gain higher tier strengths, through traits, than they already have.

Why I did this:

To diversify the races more, make humans and Imuchukk more of a valid racial picks rather than just for rp purposes. To settle upon an actual strength and speed system that doesn't exist.

Duquin

Duquin
A-Tier
A-Tier

-What you call "Fluff text" isn't just fluff. The text descriptions given matter and can be consider hard limits on what that tier of strength for the race is capable of. In the current system flavor text matters. It matters so much that it determines the functions of abilities and traits with more authority than the tier.

-Everything is measured in reference to fanalis with strength/speed traits because that emphasizes the fact that Fanalis of the same tier will always be a bit better.

-Human's being able to distribute their stamina/magoi kind of breaks the balance of the races. They are set up the way they are for a reason. It also makes no sense lore-wise for a human to have less magoi than the average Fanalis or Imuchakk or more magoi than a magician.

-Saying human fists aren't a weapon is an insult to martial artists everywhere. It's already an insult capping their damage at D-tier. If you were arguing that the base damage for a human should reach C-tier when the character does, I'd find that much more reasonable.

-Nerfing fanalis makes less sense. They are supposed to be stronger than all other races canonically.  It will be more jarring and confusing to new players familiar with Magi if they make a fanalis and then find out average joe human can match them in an arm wrestle. For some, that would even be a big enough turn off to not even join the forum.

-Races didn't get Omega-tier buffs for a reason. Omega-tier stuff is generally supposed to be restricted to specially obtained things such as solomon shard traits, event rewards, and djinn extreme magics.

-Imuchakk characters could make their own custom strength/speed based traits. The standard ones are simply generic traits for people to choose from.

-Humans and Imuchakk both have strengths that make them worth choosing over Fanalis for more than rp reasons.




Sorry to dissect your suggestion like this. But I feel like you don't see the balance that is already in place. I'm not saying the system is perfect and doesn't need any changes. But the direction you're taking seemed to ruin the races from a lore standpoint. That alone makes me feel like I should urge you to reconsider your approach.

Human's shouldn't be the equal of a fanalis in strength or speed. Allowing them to be runs counter to the entire premise of the fanalis race.


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Thank you all, for everything.

Diana Corvus

Diana Corvus
A-Tier
A-Tier

This looks generally good but there are a bit of things you misunderstand in terms of how things work.

Humans dealing D Tier with their fists makes much more sense than you're thinking it to be. Think about it this way: There are different types of damage-- like slash, blunt, and magical. While there are more, those are just some examples off the top of my head. Swords may not have the same damage type as fists but they're both capable of doing D Tier damage.

What you don't seem to understand for some reason, even though I keep telling you, everything balances out in the end. Every race has it's downsides but you just don't believe me.

For instance, while Fanalis are quite strong, they can't utilize a djinn equip as well as Humans or Imuchakk can due to their magoi. Humans, may get the shit end of the stick or so to speak but honestly... with the right traits you can be just as strong as anyone else. Imuchakk may seem like they're only strong early but they can also be just as strong as anyone else in the long run.

Fanalis aren't stronger than Imuchakk at C Tier. At C Tier a Fanalis can deal B Tier damage with just their fists-- so can Imuchakk. If anything, they're just as strong.

Now onto your changes...

  1. This nerf is not needed for humans. Since, stated above, damage comes in different types. Fists dealing tiered damage makes sense.

  2. In my opinion, this isn't needed. While, yes, I do agree we shouldn't measure strength / speed by a unit of Fanalis... no need for this.

  3. This makes it NOT make sense with the canon. So, again, I don't personally agree.

  4. The buffs aren't buffs... they're nerfs...

  5. --

  6. That would make it extremely hard on staff members who change magoi / stamina values. Right now there are only two people who do this. With a larger player base it would be an aggravating change, in my opinion.


Again, with this last statement, you're nerfing humans for the sake of nerfing Fanalis. I understand you think the race is ridiculously overpowered but you're not thinking of the "late game" aspect of things. A human could easily defeat anyone in battle regardless. That goes for any other race. It all balances out in the end. I'm not even saying this because I have a Fanalis character either...

The races ARE diverse... perhaps humans need more perks but I think they're the most flexible out of all the races. Saying that people pick the other two races for rp purposes and not for other reasons is kind of rude. My first character was going to actually be an Imuchakk, honestly. I didn't make it that way because I couldn't think of a background that fit for what I wanted so I made a Fanalis instead since they were both my favorite races from the anime aside from Magician. But we'll see what others think of it. I gave my opinion.


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Strength Systems, and Changes to Race Systems 001
Strength Systems, and Changes to Race Systems 002Strength Systems, and Changes to Race Systems 003

Duquin

Duquin
A-Tier
A-Tier

I feel like I should add that magic tools are the great equalizer. Human's being able to make their own custom magic tool at B-tier is a big deal. If they make it a magic weapon and do a good job of creating a custom one, they can end up with a weapon strong enough that they can wipe the floor of any fanalis or imuchakk who isn't the right kind of magic tool or abilities to counter it.

So the "shit end of the stick" has gold plating under that smelly residue.


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Thank you all, for everything.

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