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Another option to obtaining a tertiary!

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Hohotaro

Hohotaro
A-Tier
A-Tier
IC explanation example: A character that doesn't want to spread himself too thin and want to push himself/herself to better understand the things he already know. He/she will try to break his/her current limitation and try to train her two specialization to the utmost level.

@Ayero  It's only available for Omega-Tier players, so even if it's a little complicated the target players are not really newbies. o-o

Please teach me how some combo can be OP ^o-o^. They'll still have same number of skills as if they have an omega and an A-Tier spec. This is the only benefits for each spec that will be added:
Benefits:


  • Strength: A total of 6 techniques can involve Magoi Manipulation.

  • Stealth: 25 free ammunition outside of techniques for ranged weapons.(stealth got the shortest stick)

  • Dexterity: May have a total of 3 Magic Tools and 2 A-Tier or lower Ancient Weapons. 25 free ammunition outside of techniques for your primary Ancient weapon.

  • Intelligence: At this tier a magician can learn a third magic type  anywhere on the wheel. All three types can be used in conjunction to create brand new techniques and magics.

  • Dominance: Can own 1 A-Tier beast and 1 B-Tier Beast. Beasts can register A-Tier and below techniques. At this rank your primary beast (that is, the A-Tiered one), reduces word-counts on travel topics by 50%. Ω-Tier abilities can only be used by "Legend Beasts".

  • Manipulation: Can manipulate their entire body.

Please correct me if I'm wrong. I'm not sure if those are the only benefits.



PS. Even if this is approved I'll still get a Dom Tertiary lol I still want that talking parakeet ^O_O^ This suggestion just interests me cause choice is always good IMO as long as all choices are valid and viable ^O_O^

PPS. From this I can conclude that stealth primary sucks XD


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Bahir

Bahir
β-Tier
β-Tier
Just looking at this from an IC/Logical standpoint I don't see how it could be justified, lol. (I know it doesn't matter but I can't get passed it).

But I can see the OP problems when it comes to Int and Dom specifically. I mean... someone who isn't a magi throwing a possible 5 elements at you is kinda ridiculous. (Three for top Int, 4th to mix in if from Magno, and then the Legendary beast's) Not to mention you got yer own lil shield to sit back with.

If this is something that gets pushed through, I would recommend one of the balancing ideas be that the two primary's can not exceed B or A tier. A jack of all trades is a master of none.


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Zadi

Zadi
A-Tier
A-Tier
Aside from balancing issues, this isn't all that hard to put into effect Plot-wise.

Say your character is stuck between wanting to learn a variety of techniques or gain a better grasp of their current techniques. Depending on your character's fighting style you may want variety or reliability. If your character likes 'sneak attacks' or changing variables in battle, your character may want to have a third specialization different from his/her other two specializations. However, if your character feels content with their current roundup of specializations, he/she may want to improve on the weaker specialization. Either a master with a couple trades or a master of two with no outlying trades. Your character may very well do better with more specialization than with less or vice-versa.

Taking Int/Dom out of consideration, there isn't a massive difference between B-tier and Omega-Tier. They are both able to have A-tier skills. The biggest difference would be the items that one are capable of carrying. Again though, either variety or a reliable foothold. Some like staying the way they are with a little added strength while others may want oodles of skills.

So yeah, there are Plot reasons to chose between having three specs or sticking with two. Not only that, you aren't necessarily more powerful. It all depends on the general skill level of the character.


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Zadi

Zadi
A-Tier
A-Tier
I'd rather make a separate post for this next issue - Balance;

From what everyone has said, more or less, Int/Dom is the only problem with this entire setup. However, the simplest way to fix all of this is to not make it "Two Primaries" but rather a "Strengthened Secondary". That way all the restrictions apply for both sides such as Borgs, Rukh Sense, and Legendary Beasts. I think someone suggested this, but I just don't feel like scrolling up right now.

So, simply put, Int/Dom is OP in the proper hands, just not as an idea in and of itself with the Primary/Secondary restrictions applied;

Int Primary - Rukh Sense, Borg, 3rd Magic Type, Defense Restriction, Weak Constitution
Dom Secondary - Beasts, Last Stand, No Legendary Beast, No Extra Magic Type (LB)

Dom Primary - Beasts, Last Stand, Legendary Beast, Extra Magic Type (LB)
Int secondary - No Rukh Sense, No Borg, 3rd Magic Type, Defensive Restriction(?), Regular Constitution

I thinks that's all the pros/cons per combo. If I'm wrong, just say so...obviously. But yeah, keeping the Primary/Secondary restrictions in an Omega/Omega spec combo even makes Int/Dom a "less OP" idea.


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Azix Niraj

Azix Niraj
Ω-Tier
Ω-Tier
If we're talking about removing the limit on secondary as zadi suggested instead of having two primaries, I could get behind it. That would remove most balance issues.


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That works for me. I just like the option of not having a tertiary and not losing too much power for wanting to stick with two specs.


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Hohotaro

Hohotaro
A-Tier
A-Tier
yeap I can stand behind what Zadi said ^O_O^


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Greyfield

Greyfield
C-Tier
C-Tier
Anything can be implemented if it is balanced properly but the effort required is the issue. I do think it is a nice idea that could fit into some characters roleplay if it goes the route of enhanced secondary.

On that line of thinking I would also like to suggest an option at omega tier to have three specs that go up to and only up to A-tier for a utilitarian battler. It could still follow the current abilty type and rank limits, with only the primary having access to an unsustainable Omega tier abilties if at all or (and this is what I think would fit better) the omega tier abilty gets converted into extra possible A tier abilities for someone who chosen this option.Assuming we can rank the average utility of a spec in point with D-tier being worth one points and each tier adding on a point ,we get  scores like this at omega tier.

Chimera's/Zadi's idea if I understood it right (omega primary + omega secondary with some limitation) =  10 utility points

Normal ( Omega primary + A-tier secondary + B-tier tertiary) = 12 utilty points

Master of none ( A-tier primary + A-tier secondary + A-tier tertiary) 12 utilty points

If we use a power point score system with each tier being worth twice as much as the last we get point totals like this

Chimera's/Zadi's idea if I understood it right (omega primary + omega secondary with some limitation) =  32 power  points

Normal ( Omega primary + A-tier secondary + B-tier tertiary) = 28 power points

Master of none ( A-tier primary + A-tier secondary + A-tier tertiary) 24 power points

This is assuming a lot of things on my end such tiers being able to be equivocated to point values like this,or having access possible access to 20 A-tier dex and steath ammo along with an A-tier melee magic weapon doesn't add a comparitive bonus to power but, it shows that Chimera's/Zadi's idea comes in first in power and last in utilty, normal ties for first in utilty and is in second for power, and master of none has last place in power and ties for first in utility.

I'm not sure what this says for the original suggestion but a master of none could be balanced since currently anyone canhave three specs at B-tier,the sustain times average out,they have the same magoi and mostly the same abilty limits as everyone else, and in power points they are the lowest.

I think it could also make sense role-played out because instead of training to be surreal in one thing, excellent in the next and pretty good in the last at omega-tier, you train to become excellent in all of them and the minor resulting technique conflications prevent you from mastering you primary.


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Vardreth

Vardreth
Ω-Tier
Ω-Tier
Dogma: The first issue with the suggestion there of having 3 specs be at A-Tier is that this does nothing for your tertiary spec that it doesn't already do. You can use A-Tier abilities at B-Tier, it's just limited in how many you are able to use. The second issue is that it would require an almost full revamp of the current systems in order to actually balance it out, as it would lose out on Omega-Tier abilities, and gains nothing (spec rank doesn't decide the number of abilities somebody has, that's character rank that does that) in exchange for that loss.


Overall:

We are going to adopt this shortly, based on the most recent discussion a majority of the members believed to be reasonable. There will be an option to 'unlock' the restriction that keeps your secondary from being equal in terms of power to your primary.

This will allow for additional sustain for abilities, and the capability to create Omega-Tier abilities for more than just your Primary specialization (because you can only have Omega-Tier abilities for a specialization that has hit Omega-Tier). In exchange, they will be unable to have a tertiary specialization.



As a side note, currently we only allow Offensive/Supplementary and Defensive/Supplementary abilities out there. We do not allow Offensive/Defensive or Supplementary/Supplementary.

This is going to be changed at the same time we place the above in effect. Supplementary/Supplementary will be allowed, though Offensive/Defensive is still not allowed. This will cover the same restrictions as multi-class abilities already have (1 tier nerf for each effect) but will allow a member to create an ability that may be a bit more unique in what it could do, or could help in immediately transitioning to effects for those who like martial arts (throwing a person to the ground and then pinning them).


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